5. Les Femmes Noires et L'Amour
Seazon 1 Episode 5
What's your relationship with relationships? Z has another guest join the conversation about the role that romance has played in our lives.
Transcript
Z: [00:00:00] And it breaks my heart to see you happy without me. All right. Guess what? It's another romance episode. This time I'm fortunate enough to have one of my dear friends with me just to talk about our relationship with relationships. If you've listened to "Coach of Cuffing Season", you'll probably hear a lot of the same ideas, segments, sentiments, feelings repeated a little bit for the sake of the conversation. But guess what? That happens. And this is all part of the growth process. So if you don't want to hear it again, you probably shouldn't listen to this episode. However, there's going to be a whole bunch of new insights. So you probably should listen to this episode and it's going to be a little bit longer than the usual ones. You know how I get when I have guests, we don't know how to act and we end up chatting. But either way, it's going to be a great time. So please, thank you for tuning in. And I do hope you enjoy. OK, I'm here with my dear friend Zora. Zora would you like to introduce yourself to the listeners?
Zora: [00:01:03] Hello, my name is Zora. How are you doing today?
Z: [00:01:06] I'm great. I'm chilling out. So as I mentioned in the intro, we're going to be talking about our relationship essentially with relationships. The first overarching question that we're going to address is. Well, no, I'm going to intro it better. Basically, We're both single. And we have been for a little bit. And it can be hard, you'll hear a lot about, you know, college educated women, especially black women. "Oh, like, I don't find anyone who's on my intellectual level or my emotional capacity level" or whatever the case is. And you kind of find that to be a little bit true.
Zora: [00:01:51] Just a little bit
Z: [00:01:53] Just a tad, but the. I guess the question that we're going to get at is if there is a subconscious desire to be with a partner who you feel is on your level, or do we sometimes again - subconsciously? Look for people who are not necessarily on our level, but have the potential to get there. Do we look for someone who is on a level that we aspire to be? And, you know, how has that been reflected in our dating habits? Friend?
Zora: [00:02:27] Well. OK, there's a lot to unpack here, so I am single, I don't think I've ever been in something that I'd consider a serious partnership. Um. And I guess speaking from that standpoint, I guess some people would see it as a lack, but because I help my friends so much in their relationships and, you know, we all talk like I understand like what's going on. There's a lot that I'm very glad I'm not experiencing, let's put it that way. I think it all depends on who you're talking about and the way you're perceiving it. So some people are always out to. I guess... Be the bigger person or to one up their partner or something like that. But they're also trying to do that with their friends and their relatives. So I think it's important to see the way people are navigating in their other relationships before you start talking romantic.
Z: [00:03:36] That's an important point.
Zora: [00:03:37] Yeah.
Z: [00:03:39] That's the dating aspect, I think I think people today don't date enough, but no, seriously, there's a lot of confusion about what is a relationship, what's not. A lot of people are in a big rush to be in something that they want to call a commitment. I'm no stranger to that. But I also do recognize the value in legitimately getting to know someone before you get into a relationship with them, because the time to learn about the things that you like and don't like about them is not while you're in a committed relationship, the time to do that is beforehand. And then you make that decision to go further and then you learn, I guess, you know, less aggressive information. But, you know, you're not supposed to learn about the red flags while you're in the relationship, you're supposed to see those prior to. But we don't really give ourselves - And I say we as just like I want to say, this generation was just like people in general who are excited for a relationship typically don't give themselves that time to learn about someone beforehand. And then you end up in a short lived relationship because, you know, you just were so quick to have a girlfriend or have a boyfriend and you didn't realize that neither one of you were actually prepared to take that next step.
Zora: [00:04:50] Right. And again, like you said, this isn't specific to anybody. Everybody does this. You know, it's not. But I think where it becomes frustrating for the person doing it and everyone around them, OK, you've done this before. You see, it didn't work for you. Why are we not doing something different? And that's where my problem lies. Whether you're talking about this or anything else, if you've experienced something once or twice, maybe even three times, everybody learns at their own pace. But you're - acknowledged this. Look at this. Don't do it again, maybe? Perhaps.
Z: [00:05:33] No, definitely, and, wow, it's so it's so easy being on the outside, looking in, because we can sit here and say, yeah, you know, learn from your mistakes, learn from your past, learn from your bad habits and and try not to repeat them. And then. At least if you're like me, you'll find yourself in very similar situations and then you have to have a moment of reflection, you're like, wait a minute, this is all very familiar. Why is it familiar? Oh, because you're not changing those habits. And I know, again, my my personal example is I - and this is also another thing that we're going to talk about, types of people that were attracted to. I have always been attracted to just the creative types. So people who are into art, people who're into music, painting, all of that stuff, the stuff that would be labeled, I guess, unconventional. I've always been attracted to people who immerse themselves in that to some degree, partly because I never considered myself much of an artist. I usually look at it from the scope of painting and like, you know, illustrative art. My dad, however, he paints, he plays the piano, he does karate. He does like a lot of different things. And he's also a smart guy. So I feel like that also has something to do with it. But every time I find myself, like with a serious crush on someone in the age of SoundCloud rappers it always happens to be someone with the SoundCloud and, you know, after it didn't work out the first first time and a half, I was like, all right Z, no more, no more SoundCloud rappers.
Z: [00:07:09] And then every time I'm interested in someone, you know, I follow them on Instagram. And then there's the link. And I'm like, oh, yay. But at the same time, like, shout out to you for having something that you're passionate about and pursuing it, because I can't say the same for myself. And I think that is something that plays a big role. At the end of the day, whatever these people are into, they're ready to dedicate 100 percent of their lives to it. And I definitely do have some envy in that because I can't sit here and tell you that I have something that I'm willing to do the same for. So that might be part of it. It might be because, you know, my dad is artsy, no clue. But it also historically has never been successful for me. But in the one the other episode that if you guys listen to Coach of Cuffing Season, I talk about giving myself the space to explore those feelings, regardless of what the outcome is, because, you know, life is short, so live it. But also, you know, it can get a little tiring and redundant, but
Zora: [00:08:16] It be like that
Z: [00:08:18] Yeah all right. A lot of points were made.
Z: [00:08:23] I want you guys to know, Zora has a pen and notebook paper and she's actively writing notes. To give you the most accurate tea.
Zora: [00:08:32] Being a Virgo is a blessing and a curse, but two things that I think are really important here. OK, so you told your story. I suppose I'll tell mine. I am also attracted to a very artsy people, but I'm attracted to people that I guess - to me - think outside the box or present me with, I guess, something that I didn't know too much about. However, the negative is that they're typically manipulative or I'm seeing a lot of potential, which, by the way, if you don't act on it, it doesn't exist. You don't have any. That's what that means. OK. And for the ladies and gentlemen and anyone in between. Do not do something for someone or get into a relationship because you see their potential and they're not acting on it, if you're not acting on it, it doesn't matter. You can have all the, quote, potential in the world. Nothing is going to manifest from it if you don't do something about it
Z: [00:09:36] Real rap raw.
Zora: [00:09:39] But anyway, yeah, those are the types I'm typically attracted to. And I think something I had to do in relationships, friendships, I... It's not that I can't rely on people so much, but I cannot always give you the benefit of the doubt. Oh, but you're like this. Oh, you do this. So this is really anticipated. OK, so then talking to myself about it, if this is anticipated and I don't like this, should this person really be here? And that's the conversation I've. Find myself in have found myself in and especially well, I've graduated from college for those who do not know, especially after graduating from college, there's a lot that I feel I tolerated. I feel like I kind of put myself through because I didn't take the signs as they came. And I'm realizing how important it is just for my health and just for myself, that. Some people can't make it. Not with me, you know, and that's not meant to sound harsh, that's not meant to like sound, I guess, coming from a hateful place. Some people, you know, it's all still love, but we just don't see eye to eye or you're just not what's good for me or I'm noticing a lot of things and you're letting a lot slide. And that's not OK with me. Doesn't always have to be hard feelings. You know, it could be cool.
Z: [00:11:13] Oh, you made a lot of good points. Yeah. So. That last one is an important point I think to because. First of all, hindsight is 20/20 vision,
Zora: [00:11:29] But why it got to be behind me, I hate that.
Z: [00:11:32] But also that's the thing. And I feel like. Too many people are very eager to stay angry and just stay negative about situations and like that's not to say like you're not supposed to feel bad, like something bad happens, feel bad about it, you know, work through those emotions, definitely. But. If that was, you know, one, two, three, four years ago and you're still harboring negative emotions just because someone wronged you, like people are going to wrong you in this life. And a lot of times it's the people that you least expect. So, again, work through those emotions, but also, you know, take a moment to look at it for what it is and see if you can identify the lessons again, identify those habits, or maybe you can work on not repeating them, recognize your emotions, like think about how you felt in this moment versus how you felt in that moment and. You know, forgiveness is not... Forgiveness is not like an eraser that's going to take away whatever someone's done, it's going to stay there. But it's more it's more of a personal thing, I find. So I you know, I don't harbor hate for, like, past romantic relationships, past platonic relationships. You just have to recognize them for what they were. Find the value in, you know, what you did have because those relationships meant something to you one way or the other
Z: [00:12:51] They didn't not you know, we're not going to pretend now because my feelings got hurt that you don't matter anymore like you. You probably meant like a significant a lot OK, what are words? You probably meant a significant amount to me. So I have to appreciate that. But I can also recognize that we no longer have a place for one another in each other's lives. And that's OK too. And I can forgive you for, you know, not knowing how to interact with me. I can forgive myself maybe for not knowing how to interact with you, whatever the case is, and just keep it pushing, you know, I can reflect on it. I can think about it from time to time. But there's no reason that I should keep going months, years after Incident X, angry and hateful and vengeful. And so many people like, you know, "I can't stand my ex" or, you know, "she used to be my best friend and she wronged me." Yeah, people are flawed. And a lot of people are going to do really dumb things, especially when you don't want them to. But you can't control that. You can only be the best You that you can be and hopefully everything around you acts accordingly, but as we all know, that seldom happens.
Zora: [00:14:01] I think something important that you said is I guess seeing everybody as like you're human, you're flawed. That's kind of what helped me through I guess certain situations with a few people, um. Yes, I didn't expect you to do any of this, but. You know, you're just like me and I'm not perfect, so. But I guess sometimes I'm just not fucking over it sometimes I'm just not over it is OK. I know I'm flawed. I know. I do things improperly, sometimes I get it. And I guess it just all comes back to like who you are and the way you perceive it. To me, I think as long as you own up to it and try to, if not fix, just at least be cool with your surroundings and what's going on in your relationships. It doesn't have to be - nothing has to be perfect and it's not going to be any way, but I just think that there is a proper way to do things or like a proper way to say or go about something. OK, getting back to the preferences in relationships. I think that this particular topic has been all about the way people are going about it or what they're saying, but I still don't 100 percent understand.
Zora: [00:15:27] OK, so there were people on social media saying that, you know, they prefer dark skinned people over like light skinned people or they prefer light skinned women over, you know, other certain races or ethnicities. And then there was a big group of people who were offended and a big group of people who were like, "what's the big deal? It's just what you prefer in someone." And. I didn't fully understand it when it was first happening, but then like as the conversation kept on. I realize colorism plays a certain role and then. I guess people's genuine preferences, like, OK, this is also where I got confused. I think it just came down to the way, like some people were explaining, well, yeah, I prefer light skinned people or I noticed I typically gravitate and date light skinned people, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't date someone who's dark skinned. But everybody was also not explaining every detail of their thinking and some of them and people were still offended.
Z: [00:16:36] So, no, I mean, well, social media is a blessing and a curse, and also we have to remember that a lot of the times we end up having conversations meant for like a certain group of people. But you can't control, you know, the reach of something. So you and I could be having a Twitter conversation from the scope of, you know, students who graduated college with a liberal arts four year degree and someone who didn't could come into the conversation, so they're not going to see it from where we're coming from. Definitely as far as like physical preferences and things like that go, you know, like you said, colorism does play its role. And again, a lot of people aren't really articulating what exactly they mean. So there's a difference between you looking through your dating habits and being like, oh, "I seem to date, you know, curly haired girls with freckles and wide noses" versus you saying, "oh, I only date light skins just because X, Y and Z" and like. There's like there's the one where it's just like this is my this is who happens to be my habit because maybe, you know, maybe my mom is light skinned with freckles and curly hair and a wide nose. And I just kind of see beauty like that. Or then there's also I'm never going to date someone dark. I don't care how beautiful or handsome that person is. I think dark is ugly. So I think the colorism in the maliciousness comes in when like your preference is at the expense of another group, not because you've had a bad history with that group.
Z: [00:18:06] Because I have a friend who has been teased by light skin guys because she was darker, so, you know, as she grew up, she didn't feel attractive to those people and was also more attracted to people who looked more like her as a result of, you know, that's that's a direct result of colorism and, you know, malice versus, you know, and even so, she still wouldn't not, you know, entertain someone who was light skinned. But that was her negative experience versus, you know, someone who, again, like someone like me. If you look at the people who I've been in relationships with, I don't I can't tell you I have a type specifically because I'm attracted to damn near everything. But, you know, my actual boyfriends have always been over six foot. They've been brown skinned or dark brown skin. And they've been, you know. Teddy bears. And that's that's just what I've dated, but that's not my specific type, I don't I don't think I have one, but I wouldn't not date someone who deviated from that, like, you know what I mean? So there's there's the people who, you know, say, yeah, I'm into this type of person, but, you know. They'll be also in the same vein. "Oh, well, this person is beautiful and she's got or he's got everything I'm looking for in a person, but, you know, they're not six feet tall or I don't like their skin complexion so, no." And it's like you're not about to write off this whole group of people just because. What right, you know, like that's that's silly,
Zora: [00:19:41] And I guess that's another part that I didn't understand. I'm like, are there actually people who are dismissing whole groups of people because they had a bad experience with one person who looks like this?
Z: [00:19:53] Yes, so there are there are those people and some of them were definitely engaging in the conversation, but I think a good portion of the people who are engaging in conversation were just simply saying, you know, oh, like, this is my dating history. These are the types of people I find attractive. Now, there was some conflict because, again, we can have like the light skin, dark skin conversation. And there were people, girls and guys saying, you know, oh, I just think that, you know, light skinned girls or light skinned guys are prettier and it's like, OK, but like..
Zora: [00:20:23] No,
Z: [00:20:25] You know, like what exactly. Like, do you have science to back this up? Because, you know, again, that that is definitely it may not be direct, but it's definitely a result of, you know. Colorism and, you know, Western colonial beauty standards and things like that.
Zora: [00:20:40] Right. And I don't know about any of those people, but I've seen ugly people from all scopes of the rainbow.
Z: [00:20:45] Yes.
Zora: [00:20:46] So,
Z: [00:20:47] Yes, you know what I mean? So it's things like that. And, you know, the girls will joke like, oh, well, he's nice, but he's five seven and I can't do that. And it's like it's like, come on, like, come on, girl, you know. And like like not to say it's OK to joke like that, but like a lot of people make jokes, you know, in that vein, like, oh, I don't want to date a guy who's shorter than me or, oh, you know, I don't guys want to date a girl that's taller than them. But then you come sometimes you come across a person and like, that's how you know that you're grown up because, like, you really are attracted to them, like for on the inside, not just on the outside. And it's it's fine. And then you're like, wow, I guess I was being silly when I said, you know, only girls who are five foot five and below or whatever the case may have been because now you've met someone who's decisively changed your mind just by being who they are.
Zora: [00:21:36] And granted, this doesn't happen unless, you know, you're one of these people, because if you're let's say you're one of the people who let your friends convince you, "oh, they still ain't shit. They still under six foot. They still" and a lot of people are letting their friends and their boys and their girls influence what they think about certain people to the point where you'll have people not dating people because their friends think they're ugly or something.
Z: [00:22:02] And that's weird like you
Zora: [00:22:04] And some of your friends. Well, I don't think there anybody to be judging anybody else's appearance.
Z: [00:22:10] Truly. But, you know, that's the nature of some relationships today, not even just today, like in general. But, you know, obviously we see it more because we have different means of seeing what's going on in more parts of the world and just different perspectives at all times. But, you know, that's definitely pretty, pretty ugly. So what we're about to do now is going to go on a short break and we will be back to talk more about our perceptions of relationships. Zora brought up a good point earlier about sometimes you're just got over it. And I've got a 100 percent true to life example that I'm going to share with you, the fans, just because that's what we're doing here
Zora: [00:22:48] And you deserve it.
Z: [00:22:49] Thank you. Nope, she met you guys. So take this time. Go pee, get your snacks. We will BRB.
Z: [00:23:00] All right, we have returned. So in the intro, you guys heard me do my fake cover of a song and the song was "Happy Without Me" by Chloe and Hailey off of their Grammy nominated album, The Kids Are All Right. I've added it to a playlist of songs that. The general vibe is just, you know, are relatively alternative/standard R&B singers singing about their relationships, some of the stand outs that I wrote out were Happy Without Me, The Sweetest Taboo by Sade. And Until Then (I Imagine) by Jill Scott. And there's no real theme to the playlist. The playlist is just vibes. And the content of the songs range from "Oh, we broke up and I miss you" to "We broke up and it was for the better" to "I can't wait till you come home so we could get down and dirty." You know, just a lot, a lot of feelings and right now in this time period of my life. No, no boyfriends, definitely some crushes or like one particularly, but. I. First of all, I... I open the episode singing the song just because, like, it's a vibe, but it also got me thinking. As far as like, again, past romantic relationships, whether they were exclusive or not, whatever the case was, have I ever felt as if. Well, OK, the line of the song is "that it breaks my heart to see you happy without me", and I was like, "but have I ever really felt that way about any of my past romances? Like, do I genuinely feel. Sad, disappointed, regretful that we're no longer together.?" And I think that the answer across all platforms is no.
Zora: [00:25:03] Across all platforms, so that means over here too. You know.
Z: [00:25:08] Yeah, I just I don't think. Like I ever really felt envious, like. You know, I miss you, I think we would be good together now. I'm very... I'm very much pleased with the time that I spent with those people, but I also recognized, you know, when the time was over, the time was over and, you know, there was no sense in moving backwards and, you know. Only move forward. What do you think?
Zora: [00:25:40] Yeah, um. I don't know every I try not to do this just because... I guess there are certain things for me that are very obvious, so I just try not to look behind me too much, especially if I feel like I've moved on. Um. I can't say that I want any of my old relationships back. I can't say that I... I can't say that I want to know how those people are doing. And again, this is not from a place of, like, hate or, you know, "I hope life is treating you the way you treated me, bitch." Like it's not like that. You know, I'm just not interested. And I think. At a certain point, like you said before, hindsight is 20/20, at a certain point you're like, "This relationship at a certain point just didn't serve us anymore, so whatever."
Z: [00:26:43] Yeah, yeah. And just yeah, man, I don't know. It's just so it's not weird, at least for me. But. I've just been doing a lot of reflecting on that because, you know, one of my past romances, we're now in a communicative spot where we can, you know, talk to one another and it's just very casual and like, you know, whatever. And this is actually the same one, the cliffhanger that I left you guys at the break. You know, when the relationship was fresh over, I was less hurt and sad and more so disappointed just because I felt like these are my words, my dramatic words. I felt the ending wasn't poetic enough to justify the relationship that was.
Zora: [00:27:32] You know, I'm a slut for poetry.
Z: [00:27:34] Right. And so I just kind of felt like it was just so it was so mediocre and the ending just deserved to be a little bit more extravagant. But, you know, whatever the case was, I forgave the situation like, you know, very soon after because I also noticed there was no value in me staying angry, being sad or whatever the case was. I definitely like, you know, at the end I had negative emotions. But again, it was less it was less hurt and just more so disappointment. But it was just like a pride thing as well. And I had to, like, meditate and pray in order to, like, relieve those... relieve that energy that I had and I found myself though, like a year later. Between a year and two years later... I got really angry one time randomly, just like thinking about I was reflecting and I just got very angry, but then I got angry with myself because I was like, all right. Well, it's also been, you know, X amount of years, why are you pressed? And I had a really good conversation with some of my dear friends. And my one friend goes, you know, well. One, has he, I think, OK, I was upset because I just kind of felt like he didn't understand the severity of the ending of our relationship, the way I was looking at it. And my one friend said, you know, "when has he ever shown you that he is an accountable person and practices accountability?" And I'm like, "well, never." And so my friend's like, "so why did you think that the situation was going to be any different?" And I was like, "because I was his whole G.F., you know, I was I was his girlfriend. I at least thought maybe, you know, something." And he's like, "yeah, but if he doesn't do it with his family and he doesn't do it in his work relationships and his other personal relationships, why all of a sudden would he practiced accountability in this situation?" I was like, damn, read me. And I had to understand. I was like, you know, there's I can't ask someone to be someone that they're not and do something that they just don't know how to do just because it's me in this situation. And once I got that all, like the anger and stuff that I had that kept festering and popping up in random times, that hasn't happened since. And even now, when I talk to the old romance like we're cool now, sometimes we even hang out. I don't look at him like, "you're stupid and you made dumb decisions," it's just like, hey, man, you're just a human being and you're a real product of your experiences and your environment. And some of those experiences just don't correlate with my experiences. And that's OK, because we're both doing our best.
Zora: [00:30:27] And and when you show me something, it is 100 percent up to me whether or not I opt to believe you.
Z: [00:30:34] Yes. Oh, man. That too, ladies gentlemen, non binary pals. Have you seen or heard the tweet slash the overall saying when someone shows you who they are, it tells you who they are. Believe them the first time? Because I have. Except for that, I don't listen.
Zora: [00:30:52] Likewise. And as much as I hate to say it, my mother is always right. I hate to say it, but her mother is always right. Um. There is no - in my personal experience, there has never been a reason for me to not believe someone, because I've been directly told. I've been shown. All I need for them is to like, take my notebook and start writing it out with my hand. I've had people tell me everything "I ain't shit, I'm dumb, I'll waste your time" I don't know what else it's going to take for me to get it, but I'm working on it. I can promise you that it's been acknowledged. And listen. I'm really trying. But then for the rest of you who might come in contact with me, if you tell me something about yourself, do not get upset when I finally believe you.
Z: [00:32:04] That's the thing man. I - you brought this up earlier, I one 100 percent well, no, I'd say a smooth like seventy five percent. I give people the benefit of the doubt just because I'm able to recognize that even people. Yes, people are going to show you their true colors or whatever the case may be. But a lot of times people also just don't know how to, especially in the beginning, like I'm just meeting someone or whatever the case may be. You know, some people are very good at. Portraying who they are like first impressions and some people you have to work up to that they're like cats, you got to...
Zora: [00:32:44] Earn their trust.
Z: [00:32:45] Exactly. To earn their trust, you got to get them to trust you. And then they can show you who they are. But at the same time. All of my past romances, things that have come out of their mouths to me. "I ain't shit. I'm a bad guy. I'm horrid, I'm a horrible person." And then me understanding that, you know, people are complex. "No, I'm sure you're not. You just you know, you've got such potential"
Zora: [00:33:15] "Don't say that about yourself, you're never a dub".
Z: [00:33:19] Oh, my God, just things like that. They're like, well, you're so positive here. Let me siphon that energy.
Zora: [00:33:24] And it's my female ancestors are shaking in their boots.
Z: [00:33:28] And, you know, then I want to wonder why suddenly I'm surprised when the guy who tells me he's a bad guy does a bad thing, or when the guy who tells me that he's regular or he ain't shit. Show some "ain't shit" behavior and then it's like, oh, and they do it, I call them out on it and again, literally has happened to me, they've said, "Well, I told you I wasn't shit" or "I told you I was a bad guy." I'm like, "oh, yeah, but I didn't believe you."
Zora: [00:34:00] Well, when they do these things and you know, and they know, you know, they want to still argue with you and I'm like, "OK. So I think it's just time for me to remove myself." So again, don't take it personal if I'm saying something and like perhaps someone is listening and they're like, hmm, she might be talking about me, I could very well be talking about you. Don't take it personal, but this is not OK for me. And you not considering me is also not OK for me?
Z: [00:34:30] Hello? I just.
Zora: [00:34:31] Me believing you. Listen, you told me I'm just believing you. It's not personal. It's just business.
Z: [00:34:39] It's just business. You said Point A I observed point and now I'm regurgitating Action B in correlation to Point A. Bye! Oh, man. But it's definitely something I got to, you know, I got to work on because we're also, again, like we said, we're flawed human beings. And so sometimes there's people who are just they've got magnetic personality or whatever the case is. And you just you just want to talk to them. I just want to be around them. Whatever the case is, even though they're not really benefiting you, you're just excited to be in proximity. And I'm a I'm definitely a sucker for it, more so in my past than I am now. But it used to be bad man. Like especially obviously, you know, during puberty and stuff in like middle school and boys were really important. But, you know, it would be people who you can ask any one of my close friends, even my mom from those time periods, literally. eighty five percent of the guys who I had crushes on, who I was interested in, there was no justification. They were not necessarily stand up people
Zora: [00:35:39] It's me fantasizing, it's me romanticizing.
Z: [00:35:43] But what even am I romanticizing? Because it's not like they're giving me anything to go off.
Zora: [00:35:46] It's not like they have anything. Like I saw someone. I thought, you know what? You fit the script that I'm writing.
Z: [00:35:52] Yes!
Zora: [00:35:53] Just a little bit.
Z: [00:35:53] Just a little bit!
Zora: [00:35:55] So you win.
Z: [00:35:56] That literally was me and all of 8th grade with this guy who one, I didn't even know. Two, I saw him maybe like once per day just because he was in, like my gym class or something...
Zora: [00:36:06] I'm in love with someone I saw on the train a once four and a half years ago. So you're talking to the right person
Z: [00:36:12] And it's just sucks. Like, literally, this kid was like one day again, this was one random day in the fall. I'm walking home. I've seen him multiple times because we live in the same vicinity, so I've seen him. It was fine, it was like there was there was no nothing special about this particular day, and I was just, again, writing a script in my head because I happened to be walking home alone that day. And I was just romanticizing relationships because of the media I was consuming. And I was like, what of this kid behind me just came up to me and was like, "I think you're beautiful. Let's go out for, I don't know, ice cream" or whatever kids do for dates.
Zora: [00:36:52] Froyo
Z: [00:36:52] No. I'm going to do that. And literally, I was like, OK. And then I saw him the next day and I was like, oh, there's the boy from the script. And that was it. And literally for the rest of my entire eighth grade year, all the while I told my best friend, I was like, "hey, I don't know who this kid is. I don't know his name. And he's really not all that cute, but I have a crush on him" and my best friend. And she said, "Why?"
Zora: [00:37:17] Because he's the one. Duh? Are you serious?
Z: [00:37:21] And I was like, to be honest with you, I don't know. And I explained to her the situation just now. And she was like, "that's weird. I get it. But also chillout. Can you pick someone else?" And I was like, I'll try. Could not. My mom saw him one day and she looked at me and she was like, "what?"
Zora: [00:37:34] My mother has literally given me the same look about anyone I've ever been attracted to. My mother will look at me and go, "that one? You don't want the one behind him?
Z: [00:37:46] Well, there's like only literally. This year, the year twenty eighteen, has my mom had faith in the types of people I've been like, "oh ma, I think this person is interesting, or this person wants to take me out or whatever, blah, blah, blah." And she's like, all right. Yeah, she's like "I don't know what you were doing before, but I like this." And I'm like, "Thanks, Mom." But even these attractive people, they still play me for a fool. But that's not the topic of this conversation, I guess. Or maybe it is. I don't know.
Zora: [00:38:13] We'll see where we go.
Z: [00:38:14] But, you know, I just. Sometimes you're just attracted to people for no freaking reason, and I talk with one of my male friends about this a lot because he he thinks a lot of girls are pretty and he's not afraid to tell them he doesn't want to come off as creepy, but he also wants to let people know, like, "hi, I think you're attractive. And if you gave me the chance, I'd like to take you out for Froyo" or whatever the case is. And he gets shut down a lot. And we were just talking one day and he's like, "but no one even gave me a chance" and I'm like, "Yeah, but no one has to" and he was just, you know, really frustrated and I was just trying to explain it to him, but I couldn't even explain it because look at the stuff I just said just now. Like, there's plenty of people that I've been attracted to that I have no business being attracted to. And they really weren't offering anything for me to be attractive to attracted to other than the fact that I just was maybe I was bored, I don't know. But like, it really became a very serious infatuation for me. And on the flip side, there were people again, I was just talking to one of my other friends about this. There's one guy. Who, when I met him and also got to know him in my head, I said he quite literally is everything that I should be with. I do not want him. And, you know, and it's just like great guy, we're cool friends and everything, and he's doing great things and it's woohoo but. If the opportunity ever came for us to pursue one another romantically, I would say no. And he's a good looking guy, got a good education, a go getter, he's got plans, he's doing big things now.
Zora: [00:39:54] It's great. For us and our age group. He's the one. He's Perfect.
Z: [00:39:58] He's he's a very top notch guy...I'm not attracted to him.
Zora: [00:40:02] And I have to say, this is very important because. People are always talking about the friendzone, people are always - listen. Sometimes it's just not there. And that's fine. The rejection part sucks. But I feel the cooler you move on from it, just the cooler you're just going to feel about it like... And I'm going to flash back to what you said about like you were talking to your mom and she was saying, I don't know what you were doing before, but I'm glad you're doing I'm glad we got here now. Yes. I especially in recent months, I haven't dated I... This is the first time in my life where I'm enjoying being single as opposed to I guess
Z: [00:40:44] I want a boyfriend. Yeah.
Zora: [00:40:46] Wah wah wah, You know, I Think and it's disgusting. We're so socialized. Well, I realize I was really socialized in my life and I want a boyfriend. There is nothing I watched - very few things I watch on television that didn't promote women wanting a relationship or it went past wanting it. It was like that was one of the number one desires. And what they were actually doing anything else wise was a side note. And it's like, but I feel like - me now. The relationship should definitely be the side note because a career my family, my friends, self-fulfillment and literally anything the. For a man? That's it?
Z: [00:41:37] Like what?
Zora: [00:41:39] And all the ones that are attracted to me don't have anything, so for what also, you know. So this is the first time that I'm like, listen, if I end up like Tracee Ellis Ross, I'm OK.
Z: [00:41:51] You know what I mean? Listen, if you guys listen to the other episode, I brought up the whole Oprah Stedman thing, they're not married. Anything goes wrong between Oprah and Stedman. No one's losing anything. He's going to go back to his home where he usually stays. She's going to stay at the Oprah Manor.
Zora: [00:42:06] Everyone keeps their bag, respectively
Z: [00:42:09] And they're going to keep it moving. And if things go well, they've got each other
Zora: [00:42:12] And there are no kids to complicate everything since again, not judging, but also this doesn't make sense to me. You're OK with having a baby with somebody. But marriage is too much of a commitment.
Z: [00:42:23] And I don't I don't get it. Yo no se.
Zora: [00:42:26] you're stuck with this living, breathing, pooping, crying, screaming thing until it doesn't do that anymore one day. And you have to pay for everything you everything comes out of your pocket.
Z: [00:42:40] That's also an investment. You don't have to have a wedding to be married, but
Zora: [00:42:44] You can go down to city hall and at the end of the day, tear that shit up if you have to.
Z: [00:42:49] You know what I mean?
Zora: [00:42:50] Baby eats
Z: [00:42:52] And you got to put it somewhere to sleep. It's got to get medicine is going to get education. It's got to be well-rounded.
Zora: [00:42:58] It's got to contribute to the world, you know, and that's going to cost you a very heavy bag. Nope.
Z: [00:43:06] Good grief,
Zora: [00:43:07] I'm not satisfied with the money I have now. I, I, I am not bringing a person into this world.
Z: [00:43:13] Absolutely not.
Zora: [00:43:16] However, Tracee Ellis Ross is going on vacations and getting lit on those vacations. No child, no man. And you know what? Because she doesn't want to share it with us, she probably has a boyfriend on every continent like I want. So... Not going to be sad. And also, you telling me "you don't have a man" or "you're not married" is never going to offend me. Ever at all. Ever, because again, Tracee Ellis Ross is doing just fine. Cardi B, however, is being harassed.
Z: [00:43:51] We're not going to talk about her right now. It's a very sensitive time.
Zora: [00:43:54] But Tracee...
Z: [00:43:56] We'll get there when we get there. I promise you that.
Z: [00:43:57] We will, one day. But we got our own issues right now. But like. Yes, hello. Besides, you know, obviously her career Tracee's a professional award show host and bruncher, and I really cannot think of anything better.
Zora: [00:44:14] Do you know what I would do to be a professional Bruncher? Listen
Z: [00:44:16] That's the dream. Yacht parties with my fellow black actors
Zora: [00:44:25] And doing what I love, not hating my job or my life and doing something that brings me fulfillment and happiness. So I don't have to invest it - again this is not a bad thing. Not judging, but you know what? So I have the option to not invest my happiness and livelihood into a man and babies.
Z: [00:44:45] And when you say, a man and babies, they sound like things like accessories under the Christmas tree. Look, a man and babies.
Zora: [00:44:57] Look at what the stork brought this year.
Z: [00:45:00] Tragic. No, but, you know, and that's the other thing. This goes back to the whole the dating thing. You know, you need to you need to assess what you want, like before you start going after it.
Zora: [00:45:11] And involving other people who have lives and other people attached to them. This isn't just something that affects you. The person who you obviously don't care about. Because, you know, if you did if you love something, sometimes you got to let it go. If you love something, sometimes you have to help nurture it. But you're not obligated to do any of that.
Z: [00:45:33] You're not, and you should put that information in the forefront. You know, like if you're going about this nonchalant, you kind of just want someone who can go to the movies with on Thursday specifically. You need to enter that conversation with. I just want someone who I can go to the movies with on Thursdays, because then you're going to have someone on the other side talking about, "oh. I think I found my wife" and it's like, no, you found a Thursday night movie partner, but, you know, if you're not having that conversation, and taking that time to learn about one another first. Now, suddenly, no one knows what they want or they both want two very opposing things. It gets very messy, very hectic. And now you have to end what could have been a very nice regular relationship. And you never talk to this person ever again because things got weird because no one wanted to open their mouths in the beginning. What?
Zora: [00:46:23] Which I don't understand why that's ever a problem, like I understand things are uncomfortable to talk about, but at what point do you acknowledge the ginormous elephant in the room when it's obviously there? You know, and I don't understand. Again, just a me thing. I don't understand why people are OK with this. You're obviously uncomfortable. You obviously know that this is not OK. And you're just still not going to do anything about it. It's not me, but. OK. Also. Like Zanaiya was saying, bring everything that you're entering this relationship end up front. If you enter an agreement with someone and you see they're not honoring the agreement, you have every right to Crip walk out of their lives without a word. And you never have to see that person ever again
Z: [00:47:22] (This podcast has no affiliations.)
Zora: [00:47:24] Yes. You don't have to stay there. Especially if someone's blatantly ignoring you and your feelings. You don't have to stay there.
Z: [00:47:36] Two way street man, it is a two way street, you can either get walked all over, you can get walked over and then address the fact that you're being walked over. But if you continue to get walked over, then you should walk out. It's complex and but it doesn't have to be that complex. And again, you know, yes, it can be uncomfortable talking about things, but what's more uncomfortable, you know, having a conversation about your intentions or getting into an argument that could have been avoided? And now, you know, ruining a relationship for no other reason other than that someone was shy. You know, think about it, think about it, because it doesn't have to be, and then and then the thing is you'll avoid the conversation beforehand. And then complain to the ends of the earth after the fact. "Well, there's nothing I could have done, there wasn't blah blah blah"
Zora: [00:48:27] Even though there were several things you could have done at several points beginning, middle and end.
Z: [00:48:33] And in hindsight
Zora: [00:48:34] And it's OK to say that you're uncomfortable. It's OK if you're going to speak, speak with your chest. "Listen, I'm very uncomfortable. These are not conversations I enjoy having. I'm not quite sure what to say, but here's what's going through my head" Done. And there it is. And to me, if you're above the age of 18, you should and you've had the education that you need to communicate because, you know, let's face it, it's life. It' be like that. Not everybody has access to education. Not everybody has money to do these things. But if you have and if you do, there's no reason for you to not be able to effectively communicate.
Z: [00:49:13] They can't see me, but, yeah,
Zora: [00:49:15] But we're all making faces and gestures.
Z: [00:49:20] Yeah man, I don't know. So speaking of intent. Do you know what you want in a partner, because I don't. I think I do.
Zora: [00:49:28] You know, I also think I do but I think it also changes with what I'm exposed to, because since I graduated, like I've been exposed, I like a lot of different people, a lot of different places and ethnicities and all this stuff. And, you know, it's really occurred to me, I don't know shit. About anything because then I opened up to like so many more new things. And it's like, you know, I know what I would like in a partnership, like, I guess very basic things, you know, respect, support, kindness and nurturing as like reciprocation, you know, those kind of things. But. I guess when you're getting down to like the dirty details. Not really. I also. I know, like some of the things that I don't want to tolerate and that I'm not going to tolerate because of what I've been through already. But. Every time I meet someone new or new people, I have to see where my boundaries are now, because now I know that I have boundaries and I can set them and I can do certain things.
Z: [00:50:30] That's also allowed.
Zora: [00:50:32] And not only is it allowed, but once you start doing these things, you just notice a lot of people drop out of your life. Because, you know, they don't like the fact that now they can't do or say to you whatever they want to do or say to you, because, "oh, fuck you, now you have boundaries." But I digress. I guess in my adventures of being single, I'm also learning where all my boundaries are. So I think that's another reason why I'm not very interested in dating right now, because I'd like to have this figured out before I let someone that close to me ever again.
Z: [00:51:07] Fair. I agree as long as as far as the basic stuff goes. But yeah, that's just something that I'm figuring it out. I can't speak so whatever, but it's something that I'm figuring out. And if you guys are tuning in, you'll probably be along for the journey as I figure it out. Maybe you won't. Who knows? Maybe I will be the vodka auntie who has boyfriends on different continents and they've all got something different to bring to the table. And it's fine. Maybe I won't. Maybe I'll be a cat lady. Or maybe I'll be the host of a successful podcast.
Zora: [00:51:50] Wink
Z: [00:51:50] Whatever the case is, it's also not up to us to have it figured out now. Some people do. You know, I'm twenty two and some people I know are married. Some people I know have one, two, even three kids or have you know, when they were twenty two were at a way different place in their life.
Zora: [00:52:09] I know grandparents that don't have it figured out.
Z: [00:52:11] Right. So you know everyone to each their own essentially so. There's no rush. But I think I think that's about all we got for this this topic
Zora: [00:52:22] Yep that's all I got. Thank you so much for having me.
Z: [00:52:25] Thank you for being here. This is truly a treat. We're going to take another short break and I'll be back to sign you guys off and put some music recommendations, so. Go wipe the crumbs off your face, I guess, if you got some snacks and I'll be right back.
Z: [00:52:47] So thank you again, to Zora, for coming and talking with me about our relationship with relationships. I may have lied about the music recommendations. I'm not going to tell you them here. If you follow the Instagram, the post that tells you that this episode is live. Also has a list, an entire list of the playlist that I mentioned earlier. It's called Black Women. But in French, just like this episode is titled Black Woman and Love. So I hope you enjoy it. And happy Valentine's Day. If you're listening to this before or during or around, I don't have plans except for class and some meetings. I would like to go on a sushi date, but I'll probably have to take myself on it because you guys can't be trusted. All right, Tootles, I'll catch you on the next one.